On today’s episode, Jenny welcomes Ben Camp, CEO, and co-founder of RehabPath, a platform focused on improving the patient, caregiver, and family member experience in addiction treatment. Ben discusses the origins of RehabPath, which began in 2017, stemming from his prior work in marketing for addiction treatment centers and tech startups.
Ben emphasizes the importance of the user and patient experience and the challenges people face when seeking addiction treatment information online.
Learn More About RehabPath:
Connect with Ben:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamincamp/
Interested in working with Hedy & Hopp on a healthcare marketing program?
Book time with Jenny today.
Connect with Jenny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennybristow/
Explore what Hedy and Hopp can do for your healthcare marketing program.
Jenny: [00:00:00] Hi, friends. Welcome to today’s episode of We Are, Marketing Happy – A Healthcare Marketing Podcast. My name is Jenny Bristow. I am the CEO of Hedy & Hopp, a healthcare marketing agency. And I am so excited today to be chatting with Ben Camp. He is the CEO and one of the co-founders at RehabPath. Welcome, Ben.
Ben: Thanks, Jenny. Great to be here.
Jenny: So, we met a while ago, but I went up to your office and chatted with your organization about a month or so ago when you were having your organizational all-hands and we’re doing some in person training for your team. And, I was really blown away by your focus on patient, caregiver, and family member experience.
So I would love for us just to back up a little bit and have you share with our audience your concept for RehabPath. Why you decided to create it and kind [00:01:00] of how you’re always thinking about that experience throughout the process.
Ben: Sure. Okay. Thanks. I appreciate the kind words. We really enjoyed your talk.
I think people were inspired by your take on marketing as well. So, we started the company RehabPath in 2017. But before then, my co-founder, Jeremiah and I, and some of the other founding team members, have worked at a marketing agency that specialized in a few different segments.
So, I’ll kind of talk about two. One big segment was addiction treatment. So, we worked with treatment centers and helped them do their marketing and really learned a lot about that patient journey, how complicated it was, how difficult it was for these providers to both run a successful program and also keep the beds full.
And so, we were able to work on some really good strategies for that with them. And then on the other hand, we worked with a lot of startups just in the, just like tech startups. So it’s not, we weren’t [00:02:00] as focused as you on completely healthcare. But I think that there were some benefits to that.
So we were working on the, kind of on the healthcare side, but also, yeah, on the tech startup side, and one of our big clients was a company called UserTesting.com and they did, they had a product. They still do. They’re now publicly traded, but they were super small back then. And they developed this concept for remote usability testing where you could at any moment, as a, marketing, a lot of marketing people use it. All sorts of people would use it. But at any moment, you could just order a test from their panel. And their panel was just regular people that would get paid. I think at the time it was, like, ten a test and it would go to, they would get an order for a test to be run and you would just have them walk through something that you are building or a website that you had and get feedback from them.
And we just learned how important it was to, yeah, get that user feedback as we’re building things, whether it was for our clients, or as we started [00:03:00] developing these, this concept of RehabPath before we officially launched it. So anyways, we just from the outset have had a real focus on putting user and patient experience first. And as we looked at the addiction treatment space, we saw that most people, when they have an addiction or mental health problem, they turn to the Internet first over family, friends, medical professionals and the websites that they were finding either were very hard and clunky to navigate and find help.
Kind of on even the sites that had really good intentions. And then there are a lot of websites out there that had really bad intentions and were using dark UX patterns to trick people into calling a hotline and trying to redirect them to a treatment center that is basically paying for those calls or paying for the website.
So, we build websites that truly are an independent resource. And put that patient experience first for when people are looking for treatment. We have websites that help them [00:04:00] navigate this really complicated process of finding a treatment center. And, that’s been something that we’ve been working on now for since 2017.
Like I said, we’ve got a pretty large team now and have made a lot of progress and have thousands of treatment providers on our website that people are able to find each day.
Jenny: I love it. I am just proud of you for the work that you’ve done. It’s really great to think about how many lives you’re positively impacting.
But, I’d love for you to talk a little bit about when you think about this space in particular, how are you and your team understanding what information should be highlighted within all of these facility profiles? And then how are you understanding how to best serve the patient or the family member that’s searching?
Ben: Yeah. Great questions. And I think, I mean, the lives being impacted is, like, why we, I think, both really enjoy doing marketing in this space is we know that. We’re not just selling. I mean, I love marketing any [00:05:00] type of product that I believe in, but it’s really great to do it for something that is literally saving people’s lives.
And, that’s the outcome of good marketing that you’re doing. So, we have a research team from the outset, our one person, that was Olivia. She’s now our VP of Research with a lot of people on our team. She has her Master’s in Addiction Studies. And so she heads up the effort that our team takes to work through all the information that’s out there about treatment centers and try to highlight what’s most important.
One thing that, we’ll, I’ll acknowledge is important for people when they’re looking and it sounds kind of, it’s definitely not the most important thing, but we found that photos and good, just information about what because we’re mostly working with residential treatment centers.
So someone’s looking at: “I’m going to spend 30 plus days at this place.” It’s really important for people to know what that’s going to look and feel like. So, I mean, we found that [00:06:00] the better photos and video that treatment centers have can really help people make a decision and feel comfortable actually call, picking up the phone and calling.
So that’s, like, pretty surface level and we obviously see some treatment centers that that’s really all they have to offer is a nice facility, unfortunately, but when there’s the combination of, we start with, okay, they have a really nice facility. And so we try to highlight that in the, you know, and if we are working with treatment, we often sometimes work with treatment providers that have really high quality treatment, but then their marketing assets are really bad. And so, trying to point them to agencies that can help with that, or we’ll even just go on site and do photography to help make their listings on our site look better.
Because we don’t want people to overlook a great treatment provider just because the photos are bad. If they have, yeah, so, that’s definitely one piece of it. But then we really work to try to highlight the treatment program itself and try to suss out what a [00:07:00] treatment center actually specializes in.
So it’s, typically, if you just give a treatment center a form and ask them, like, what they treat, they’ll check pretty much every box and kind of just, it’s very, and they, it’s very hard to get them to differentiate themselves from others because they believe in what they’re doing and just say that they’re the best at everything pretty much and have the best staff and all that. So, we do really try to take a, so it’s very helpful for us to take a bit of an independent look and see what they actually specialize in, what their staff, what their staff is credentialed in, and things like that.
And then we’re able to, we have a few different ways that we are able to highlight the, those specializations. We’ll certainly, like, make sure that everything that they treat is shown on the profile, but we’re able to, in the way that we kind of rank our centers, when you’re looking at a feed, if you’re looking for a certain type of treatment, we try to push up centers that specialize in that type of treatment.[00:08:00]
Jenny: That’s wonderful. I’ll say when we’re doing content marketing strategies for healthcare organizations, and then we go back and look at the data of what content is working the most, TikTok is so popular right now. Short form videos are the videos that get the longest watch time, most engagement are the “What to Expect” videos.
So for example, what to expect at my ENT pediatric appointment, or what to expect for an MRI, whatever it is. It’s boring content, right, whenever you think about all of the sexy, fun influencer content people are creating now? But at the end of the day, that’s what patients and their families need in order to help make a good decision.
So I totally understand positioning.
Ben: Yeah, well, back in the marketing agency days, like, one thing that we would do with a lot of our clients is recommend that they do, like, a day, what an average day looks like in treatment and doing a video around that is, like, it’s a really simple concept, but just kind of walking them through, like, what the daily schedule looks like.
And if it’s not a video, just making sure [00:09:00] that’s just even published on the website so people can really get a sense of, a day or a weekly schedule, what that’s going to look like. Because, most people are, that are looking haven’t ever experienced treatment before. So they need like, really want to know what it, what they’re getting themselves into.
Jenny: Yep, absolutely. And one thing I’ll say that I’d like to chat about a little bit more is what these local clinics are experiencing and facilities as far as actually trying to do marketing on their own. I mean, we work with a rehabilitation center and the Head of Marketing is also the Director of Admission.
So, we often see, like, multiple hats being worn. And so, I would love to hear your thoughts about not only what you’re seeing as far as that structure within the facilities today, but what changes you’ve seen since you’ve started this platform? And if there’s been any movement,
Ben: Yeah, I think the multiple hats thing is real, for sure. And, as we’re really passionate about the [00:10:00] patient journey, like I’ve talked about, but many of us that interact with our customers and have had a lot of experience doing that are also super passionate about helping these treatment centers run successful businesses and find people that can really use the treatment that they’re providing, so, I’m super empathetic to them.
And often just some of the most, like, passionate people that you’re working with. So I think, I mean, one thing that you’re saying the Director of Admissions and the and she’s also running marketing.
I mean, a lot of times the marketing that look that treatment centers are doing is a mix of kind of referral network building, so, I mean, they have, like, kind of on the ground marketing people that are making connections with local providers like hospitals, et cetera. And like, kind of doing that.
Like, I guess you would call it, like, old school, like, person-to-person marketing and that’s very effective [00:11:00] and, like, is a big way that treatment centers kind of build their beds and also, building that, like, alumni network. So, if someone’s gone to a treatment center and hopefully been successful just continuing to build that relationship with them over time is really helpful for getting those referrals in the future when they, because often these people end up mentoring someone that needs treatment and they’re able to point them to that center.
So, I mean, that’s really important, especially as a center, like, grows over time in terms of just, like, longevity, they can rely on more and more on that. But regardless, we see that digital strategy is really important on top of that. So, I was just talking to one of our customers yesterday and they were just saying how there’s so much overlap between that kind of on the ground referral marketing and the digital marketing.
And, sometimes people want to, like, in the CRM or something, put/decide which one gets credit and there’s a lot of kind of fighting over who, who actually filled that bed. [00:12:00] But often it’s a bit of a combined effort. So, I don’t know that I’m answering your question, but I’m just like, that’s just on my mind is that kind of, the pairing of the two is there’s a lot going on there as far as I’m trying to remember what your original question was now, maybe redirect me.
Jenny: Yeah, no worries. It just shifts, like, where you think it’s going to be going in the future from an industry perspective.
Ben: Yeah, I mean, we’ve seen, like, some shifts that we’ve seen is people kind of learning how to do their own SEO over time, which is good, I think, and not an over reliance on Google Ads, which had been a big way that people have historically filled their beds and are still doing that. But, I think that there’s one of the trends, even on the side has been, I mean, Google has gotten a lot better at surfacing, high quality content and user [00:13:00] first kind of content.
So, both our SEO strategy and then a lot of our clients is to just answer people’s questions, help them, like you were saying, like that whole, like, what is it like to go to treatment? Like, those types of queries are, have I mean, there’s not nearly as much kind of shenanigans on the outside as there used to be thankfully, and so it’s, we’ve seen some of the, some of the players in the space that were pretty low quality as far as websites out there to help people find treatment have, like, kind of fallen off over time because they didn’t ever really have that high quality of content. And so, just as we continue to invest in what we’re doing, we’re seeing kind of the rewards of that in terms of how our rankings continue.
And, like, when people are searching for treatment, they’re finding our websites because Google is getting data every day back that., “Oh, people come to this website and find what they’re looking for.” So that’s been really good. We, [00:14:00] a big trend is, over the last 5 or 6 years since we started RehabPath has been just the whole insurance thing, kind of post Obamacare where much more people are able to get treatment.
But then it gets complicated because people want to know, like, what their insurance covers and there’s a lot of restrictions on, but, insurance companies are always pushing back on what they will cover and things like that. So, that’s something that on our kind of road map is to help people navigate that treatment, like, looking for treatment with that information about their insurance.
So, if we had, I mean, a lot of times treatment centers have, like, a verification of benefits form on their website. We would love to centralize that so people can put in a verification benefits and then we only show them treatment centers that would work with their insurance so that it would just like, it’s just there’s a lot of as, it’s like, if someone picks up the phone, calls the treatment center, and then they find out, oh, like, they don’t take my insurance or they can’t, I can’t afford this, the chances of them [00:15:00] going and picking up the phone and calling another center just become less and less because it can be very demoralizing.
And there’s only that, like, there’s only those small moments where someone is, especially if you’re talking about the patient themselves, is willing to put in when looking for mental health treatment. It can be a very small window, so a lot of what we’re doing is just trying to make it so that when someone does want to make that decision, we’re taking all the barriers away.
Jenny: I will tell you, just from, I had a family friend that wanted to seek care about 10 years ago, and they ended up eventually just giving up. They, like you said, had a day where they said, okay, if somebody can find me care that I can go and check into now, I will do it. And there was no tool to search.
There was no way to be able to understand what resources even were available in the state of Missouri, let alone those that are nearby and those that accepted insurance. So huge [00:16:00] paradigm shift. So, I would love to end. Oh, go ahead.
Ben: That just reminds me of some stats that we’ve been looking at. And, I think this is from Sam.
So, I’m not sure it’s some government study. So in any, in a, in the year that they did this study they found that there were 659,000 people that didn’t get treatment, but wanted to get treatment for substance use disorder. And then they, here’s some of the reasons for no treatment. There was 221,000 people that didn’t know where to go.
There were 195,000 people that couldn’t find a program with the type of treatment desired. There were 75,000 people who couldn’t find a program close enough and then 37,000 with no openings where they looked. So, like, those are really interesting for us to see, obviously, and where we think that we can help more and more people, like, find a place to go find a program that has a type of [00:17:00] treatment.
If they can’t find a program close enough, help match them with one that they could go to and it gets covered by their insurance. So those are like, really interesting stats that we’re seeing around this. So, yeah, I mean.
Jenny: That’s an entire city’s population.That’s staggering when you think about it through that lens.
Ben: Yeah.
Jenny: So, I would love to end by you helping to help explain if there are rehab and behavioral health centers that are interested in being on your platform, what are the options? Like, if there’s a marketing person listening that wants to make sure their facility is adequately listed, how should they move forward?
Ben: Yeah. So, From the outset, our strategy is to, has been to be comprehensive. So we list treatment centers for free. And like, our research team is always looking for treatment centers that are on our platform that should be and so if a center’s, very likely a center that’s listening to us, if they’re in the US, they probably are on our platform already as a free listing.
But [00:18:00] if not, that would be the first step is to get them set up with a free listing. And then we kind of have this process where we, very similar to Google My Business, where you claim the listing and can make edits and things like that. So, we are able to provide value to centers just on the free listing side.
And then if people, if treatment centers are looking for larger reach, that’s where our advertising program comes in. So, that’s a really simple program. That is it’s cost per click. So similar to most digital advertising programs. So you pay for the volume that you get. So, basically, by turning on that campaign you’ll get a much larger reach off.
And it’s like, if you’re in one city, you’re getting access to neighboring cities, different targeting that you’re looking for. So, yeah, so the easiest way is just to fill out our contact form. And we’ve got a sales team that will, works up a discovery call and just make sure that you’d be a good fit, but yeah, I love it.
Jenny: Well, Ben, thank you so much for being on today. Thank you for the work that you’re doing. I’m going to share a [00:19:00] link to your LinkedIn profile as well as to RehabPath in the show notes, so if anyone’s interested in learning more, they know where to go.
Ben: Yeah. Thanks, Jenny. It’s been lovely getting to know you this year and just really excited for the opportunity to be on your podcast.
Jenny: Oh, thank you. And for all of our listeners, thanks for tuning in. We will see you on a following episode of We Are, Marketing Happy. Have a great day.
Piwik PRO is an advanced, privacy-focused web analytics platform. Designed as an alternative to platforms like Google Analytics, it offers in-depth insights into website traffic while ensuring user data privacy. Prioritizing data ownership and GDPR compliance, Piwik PRO provides both on-premises and cloud hosting options. It caters to businesses wanting granular data without compromising user trust or regulatory requirements.
Significant features:
Third party integrations: Piwik PRO supports many integrations with other CMS, data visualization and data storage tools, and marketing platforms like Google Ads.
Piwik PRO is a first-party data platform that uses a similar framework to Universal Analytics. The biggest difference between Piwik PRO & other analytics platforms is the data ownership. This means that the owner of the website always retains ownership of the data, which is fairly uncommon in similar products. What the platform collects is entirely dependent on the tool’s setup, but the following are almost always collected:
Every organization’s definition of HIPAA-compliance is dependent on their legal team’s interpretation of the guidelines set by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. That being said, Piwik PRO falls pretty low on the risk scale because they offer self-storage and are willing to enter into a Business Associate Agreement (BAAs).
Piwik PRO is a data-forward, privacy-focused product, whose risk mitigation options go beyond entering into a BAA. That being said, it is a good idea to ensure you have the following in place in order to catch some common missteps:
It’s always important to connect with your legal team to determine how best to move forward. Listen to our HIPAA & FTC 101 podcast for more information about changes for healthcare companies.
Mixpanel is a popular analytics platform, similar to Google Analytics. It’s widely used by marketers who want an alternative to Google Analytics, an upgrade to GA’s free version without taking the steep price hike to Analytics 360, as well as product teams wanting to improve their users’ experience. Mixpanel can also offer a more customized analytics or reporting system without going “around the system” in the way you sometimes need to in Google Analytics (Google Analytics was to provide very basic insights out of the box for just about any user who was willing to complete a simple setup guide).
Mixpanel, however, is not intended for beginners, and instead focuses on marketers & product team members who are looking for a highly customizable product that exists outside of the Google ecosystem. Mixpanel’s popularity has grown further since the release of Mixpanel Marketing Analytics.
Healthcare marketers use Mixpanel to do the following:
Mixpanel is a first-party data platform that, much like GA4, operates on an event-based framework. What the platform collects is entirely dependent on the tool’s setup, but the following are almost always collected:
Every organization’s definition of HIPAA-compliance is dependent on their legal team’s interpretation of the guidelines set by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. That being said, Mixpanel falls fairly low on the risk scale, largely because Mixpanel is willing to enter into Business Associate Agreements (BAAs) with its customers.
Mixpanel is a data-forward, privacy-focused product, whose risk mitigation options go beyond entering into a BAA. Mixpanel is built on Google Cloud Platform, which is subjected to regular, independent verification of security, privacy, & compliance controls against HIPAA. That being said, it is a good idea to ensure you have the following in place in order to catch some common missteps:
It’s always important to connect with your legal team to determine how best to move forward. Listen to our HIPAA & FTC 101 podcast for more information about changes for healthcare companies.
Today Jenny welcomes Sunny Yarrish, Director of Marketing, Digital, and Omnichannel at Myriad Genetics. On this episode, Sunny’s journey into personal branding on LinkedIn takes center stage. Although Sunny humbly claims not to be an expert, she gets results and emphasizes the power of consistency over perfection.
Her content’s positive impact is evident through messages from old friends, demonstrating the significance of meaningful one-on-one conversations. Sunny’s experience highlights that a life worth sharing yields valuable content, prompting listeners to rethink their LinkedIn presence and approach.
Connect with Sunny Yarrish:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/sunnyyarrish
Interested in working with Hedy & Hopp on a healthcare marketing program?
Book time with Jenny today.
Connect with Jenny on LinkedIn
Explore what Hedy and Hopp can do for you
Jenny: [00:00:00] Hi, friends. Welcome to today’s episode of We Are, Marketing Happy – a Healthcare Marketing Podcast. I’m Jenny Bristow, I’m your host. I’m the CEO at Hedy & Hopp, a Healthcare Marketing Agency. And today I am so excited to have Sunny Yarrish. She’s the Director of Marketing, Digital and Omnichannel at Myriad Genetics.
Welcome, Sunny.
Sunny: Hi, Jenny. Good morning. Thank you for having me.
Jenny: So, I have become a huge follower and fan of the content that you post on LinkedIn. And that’s our topic today. So, I’m excited to have you on to talk a little bit about personal branding, because one of the topics that we hear about a lot is figuring out how to develop a personal brand on LinkedIn and the benefits of it.
So, you started a challenge in February this year. Tell our listeners a little bit about it.
Sunny: Oh, Jenny, thank you. I’m actually humbled to be here to [00:01:00] discuss this topic, because by no means I figured out everything. So I will treat this as a conversation, Jenny, kind of to reflect this journey since February, maybe at the end of this conversation, my answer will be more clear through this conversation.
So, yes. I guess before February this year, I was a very passive consumer on LinkedIn. So, I consume information. I treat LinkedIn as a platform when you announce bigger milestones, like you change your job, you got a promotion. So, you do that once a year or once a few years, you go there to say, hey, this is big news. That’s it.
So I think more and more when I spent time on LinkedIn, I saw people publish very interesting or educational or inspiring content. So, I would tend to like their content. So, even commented. So, I guess, February this [00:02:00] year, I started thinking is, I want to switch the role.
I don’t want to just sit there and just kind of consume information. I want to be a contributor to that platform. So, I guess, that’s how I put a switch on. So, why do I do it? Why do I set a challenge to do that every day? So, my challenge is every weekday, Monday through Friday. But, why switch a challenge on is, I think, before I get good at this, first stop is I want to be very consistent.
So, how consistent? Let’s make it simple. Monday to Friday. Every morning at eight o’clock.
Jenny: I love it, Sunny. And I love that you’re focused on consistency over perfection. Because I think that’s one thing that prevents people from doing things in their professional or personal lives is the fear of not being perfect.
But, I will tell you that one commonality with all of your posts is optimism and positivity. That’s one of the reasons I love following your content is, I know on my feed, it’s always going to be something uplifting. [00:03:00] It’s always going to make me just pause for a moment and reflect. So how do you decide what you’re going to post every day?
Sunny: Yeah, so how do I decide what I’m going to post every day? Right? So, I kind of sit down. So, I put a list of topics, what I’m interested in. So, of course, I’m a marketer, so I’m always interested in publishing lessons learned in the marketing field, especially in the healthcare space. So, sometime I’ll touch on a medical advancement, especially in my field.
So, that will be one of the topics. And, also I’m a huge advocate of personal health and growth. So, you will see, I will touch on the health topic in terms of running, fitness, forming good, long-lasting habits. How do we do that? And, personal growth is, I’m also an advocate of lifelong learning.
I always believe that the moment we stop learning is the moment we, [00:04:00] just being content with what we do, then we stop living the best of us. So, growth is another topic. So, if you’re putting this kind of health, growth, and marketing. So, I’m trying to get a good balance among the five days.
So touch on a couple of days on this topic, couple of days on that topic. That’s how I do it.
Jenny: I love it. That is wonderful. And, I’ve definitely noticed those pillars in your content. And, I will say the one about running definitely makes me feel like I need to go be more active. Your 5am runs to catch the sunrise.
I’m so impressed with you. So, talk to me about benefits you’ve seen so far, because I know one of the things that maybe prevents people from doing it is not really understanding the end goal or what benefits may come from it. So, I know you say, you’re not an expert, you’re just learning, but you’ve been doing this since February.
So, talk to us a little bit about the benefits you’ve seen.
Sunny: Yeah, when you say end goal, so since I start posting regularly, [00:05:00] believe or not, I got a text message or phone calls or LinkedIn message from my old friends. So, they were all asking, saying, hey, we notice you post very consistently. So, Sunny, what’s your end goal here?
Truly, I have to sit back, reflect, what is my end goal? So, I think, sometimes without a clear end goal is when I post something, I feel I spend a lot of time on posting, I got very few likes. I’m telling you, everyone has the vanity metric. So, in the marketing, we all have a metric.
So I feel like it’s disheartening. Why am I doing this? Why I’m kind of show up every day to do this then? But whenever I feel that way, Jenny, then I will tend to get, again, a comment or text message from people I haven’t, I guess, haven’t been touched for a long time. They just text me and email me saying, Sunny, we become your followers.
Then, your message is so [00:06:00] uplifting, actually touched me. I just want to let you know. So, I think from that moment is another thing is telling me is, when you show up on LinkedIn, just again, stop thinking about those vanity metrics. Really treating it as the one on one conversation with people.
And Jenny, you can tell I’m a pretty optimistic person. You see that. So, I want to be a source of positivity. So, I want to be able to relate the lessons I learned from the mistake I make or from the life journey I made. I want to be able to share that. So, if I just touch on one person, that’s good. So, treat that as a one on one conversation and also for the personal benefits.
Here’s I feel the most benefit to me is, when I just started posting back to February, March, I have so many content topics in my pipeline. I can sit there thinking, oh, I got everything figured out for next week. You know why? Because I lived a pretty interesting life. So [00:07:00] far, I moved to, I lived in three different countries.
I switched three different industries from IT, healthcare, medical device, and even the movie industry. I went to film school. So, I have a lot of interesting, and I run a marathon. So, from a person who hates running. So, because I feel I have these interesting stories, so, I can write them, share them. But, now, we are talking about six, seven months in, I kind of deplete my inventory.
So, what I tell me is if you want to show up on LinkedIn, you better have a life worth of sharing, worth of documenting. So, now I think writing on LinkedIn is a challenge for me. Every day is, Sunny, have you start a new challenge? Have you doing something worthy of documenting? Or, have you spent time reflecting?
So, I guess to write on every day, something worth of sharing is a constant reminder of living a life [00:08:00] worth of sharing. I hope that makes sense.
Jenny: Sunny, that is so beautiful. It absolutely makes sense and is very similar to the beautiful content you share on LinkedIn. So, I love it so much. And, I will comment and I will agree that many people on LinkedIn are passive consumers of content.
So, I, just like you, often people inbox me or text me or call me about a content piece that I published and never will have liked any of my content for years, but they were consuming it the entire time. So, I totally agree with you. LinkedIn is a little different from that perspective. So, well, Sunny, thank you so much for being on today.
This was a really fun conversation. Listeners. I’m going to put the link to Sunny’s LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Please go follow her if you want a daily dose of positivity each morning, and we look forward to seeing you back on here in the future for another episode of We Are, Marketing Happy.
Have a [00:09:00] great day.
Sunny: Thanks, Jenny.
GA4 is the latest version of Google Analytics, the most popular analytics tool in the world. It is also the biggest change to the tool since its original release in 2005. For the first time ever, Google Analytics will not be backwards compatible with previous versions of the platform’s tags. GA4 requires a complete reinstallation of tracking tags, which has many users reevaluating their tracking platforms. Paired with OCR’s recent bulletin which identified IP addresses as PHI, this shift in the ecosystem has made the question of how Google Analytics fits in HIPAA-compliance a hot topic for healthcare marketers
Google Analytics, unsurprisingly, collects a lot of data about your user:
Google Analytics 4 has made a lot of improvements that make it easier for companies to utilize stronger data privacy standards and move further into the age of cookieless tracking. These changes allow the tool to be used more in line with GDPR, CCPA, & other privacy policies. Despite these changes, however, Google Analytics is not HIPAA-compliant, as it still receives and stores PII/PHI, including device IDs, browser information, and location data, and does not offer a BAA. Google even explicitly states that “Google makes no representations that Google Analytics satisfies HIPAA requirements” and instructs users to refrain from exposing the software from any information that could be considered PII/PHI.
There are several ways to make Google Analytics safer with strong data privacy standards. These are available in the Privacy Controls section of your Google Analytics settings. While enabling these settings will not satisfy HIPAA guidelines, it could help safeguard some user data while you determine a path forward (see our blog, Auditing your marketing plan for HIPAA compliance)
PRO TIP: Server-side tagging is a data tracking method that can help organizations protect user data. While it requires a well thought out digital infrastructure, it can give organizations more control over their data and help them comply with privacy regulations while still using Google Analytics.
Google Tag Manager, or GTM, is a powerful tool that allows you to track user activity on your website or mobile app with minimal coding knowledge required. By putting one snippet of code on a website, GTM creates a container that can manage all of the various tracking codes on your website. GTM is also a great way to improve your website analytics, track conversions, and retarget visitors (when compliant) from and to a variety of platforms. It’s also a valuable tool for businesses of all sizes, from small businesses to large enterprises.
Here are some of the benefits of using Google Tag Manager:
GTM is probably unique in your tech stack in that it itself does not collect any data – instead, it provides a container with easily configurable tags, triggers, & variables that allow you to control exactly what tracking tools are on your website and how they send information back and forth. Common tags to have in GTM include:
A good way to look at GTM through the lens of HIPAA-Compliance is that it can be the vehicle for compliance issues, and that it completely depends on how a specific site is using their tagging setup. A GTM container can manage tags for everything from a Google Search Console verification tag (completely HIPAA-compliant) to a Facebook Pixel that is gathering personal data about users who may be visiting sensitive pages on a site (completely non-compliant!).
PRO TIP: As a general rule, conversion pixels are concerning in terms of HIPAA-compliance and should be avoided. Learn more about the recent updates in HIPAA guidance by listening to our HIPAA & FTC 101 podcast.
While Google Tag Manager supports some obfuscation options that grant some level of increased data privacy and protection, this is not a watertight approach. Often, the obfuscated data is still being shared with some third party processors. Server-side Google Tag Manager (sGTM) can be a much safer approach, offering more options for data privacy and allowing users to completely control which data is shared (and not shared) with each platform.
If you want to assess your GTM risk in it’s current set up, a great place to start is by extensively documenting the functionality of each tag in your account. From there, you can assess the risks of each tag and make a plan to improve data privacy.
PRO TIP: While server-side tagging is not for everyone and does not eliminate issues associated with third party tracking tags, this approach puts more power in the hands of your team to ensure that you are protecting your users’ data.
Today Jenny welcomes Megan Cornish, a licensed clinical social worker turned healthcare marketer. Megan shares her unique perspective on marketing and copywriting in the mental health space, emphasizing the importance of positive messaging and careful language choices.
They discuss the intersection of marketing and clinicians in driving demand and the need for clinician involvement in marketing strategies. They also touch on the challenges posed by large companies entering the mental health space and the importance of viewing traditional therapists as allies, not competitors.
Connect with Megan Cornish:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/megan-cornish/
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Book time with Jenny today.
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Jenny: [00:00:00] Hi friends. Welcome to today’s episode of We Are, Marketing Happy, a healthcare marketing podcast. I am Jenny Bristow, the CEO and owner of Hedy & Hopp, a healthcare marketing agency.
I am so excited today to have Megan Cornish here with us. She is a licensed clinical social worker turned healthcare marketer.
So she’s bringing her clinician experience into the marketing world. And I’m so excited to dig into what that means. Welcome Megan.
Megan: Thank you so much. I’m very excited to be here.
Jenny: So we connected originally on LinkedIn because you were making some really fabulous posts talking about the intersection of marketers driving demand with clinicians satisfying that demand and then when things, you know, don’t quite match up.
And so I’m excited to chat with you first about how you approach marketing, copywriting, and [00:01:00] content strategy in the mental health space. So talk to me about some of the work that you do.
Megan: Yeah, absolutely. I think as a clinician, I have a unique perspective on things that I can kind of see the whole scope, the whole span of the treatment journey.
Marketers tend to view it as a funnel and their role ends as soon as that person starts treatment. But I kind of understand it on a longer scale where the clinicians are gonna start working at that point. But the marketer is actually a part of the treatment journey as well. So the way they say things, the way they get people into treatment really matters.
It’s really important because words are important and the way that these clients are viewing their treatment journey is gonna really play a big role in how successful they’re going to be in therapy.
Jenny: Yeah. So one thing that I have noticed in the mental health space in different communication strategies is fear based communications.
Talk to me about how [00:02:00] words matter when you’re trying to encourage somebody to enter a treatment journey. How do you approach it? And what is your perspective of how language matters?
Megan: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think as a clinician, if I have someone coming into my office who wants to change the 1st thing I need to help them see is what they want.
Not what they don’t want because it’s if you move away from something, you can move in any direction, but you have to know what your goals are and what it is that you’re looking for. So that’s super important. I think to to use positive tactics to get people into therapy in the 1st place.
Otherwise, you’re sending these people who are scared and are not in a good place to start. They’re not ready. They might drop out. You’re gonna have to spend more marketing dollars. You want to make sure that the motivation and the pathway into therapy is on positive. I also think it’s important specific words that are used.
You have to be careful how you talk about mental health. You have to be even down to little things like anxious people or depressed [00:03:00] people. We don’t, in mental health, we don’t label people that way because part of treatment is getting people to separate themselves from their issues. You can’t work on your mental health issues if you can’t view yourself as separate from them.
So, if the marketing itself is just reinforcing this idea that you are your problem. You’re not going to be able to have success in therapy.
Jenny: Absolutely. And I think it’s really interesting. We’ve done lots of provider based marketing to bring patients in. And one of the things that we often struggle with is the difference between how physicians talk about their services versus how consumers Google and research the services and the big gap between that.
So one of my favorite stories is we were redoing assets for different service lines and the cardiologist, the head cardiologist was reviewing the copy and he actually got really frustrated that it was “heart doctor” but that is how everybody Googles it.
Like people don’t [00:04:00] know the word cardiologist. The average reading level is actually quite lower, you know, than a doctor’s. So you have to actually speak to them in a way that they can understand.
Megan: Absolutely, yeah, I think that clinicians tend to be a little bit more in tune with that, you know, because a cardiologist, it doesn’t matter what they say the treatment that they give is going to be the same.
But for a therapist, what you say is the treatment. So we’re pretty in tune with what our clients need to hear from us, which I think is part of my superpower in marketing is understanding what resonates already as a clinician. I just kind of shift the way that I’m doing my work.
I’m still promoting mental health. I’m still bringing up motivation to change, which is something you do every single session. You have to help people tap in their motivation to change and their motivation to get better. And I do that in marketing now too. It’s just kind of on a larger scale.
Jenny: So, best case scenario, if there was a marketing team in the mental health space, at [00:05:00] what point is it the most important to have a clinician or somebody with a better understanding of the treatment plan to kind of weave in to the marketing team’s approach?
Megan: Best case scenario, I would say having someone as a partner or consultant all the way through.
Having a conversation like this, where you say, this is what we’re thinking about our strategy. This is what we’re thinking about our messaging. Like, what do you think from a clinical perspective? What do you think is going to resonate? All the way through to say, what’s the best way to describe this term for someone who doesn’t know what it is?
And then obviously, you know, at the end say, can you give a review? But minimum, you need to have clinician eyes on it before it goes out. You need to say, is there anything problematic about this? Is there anything confusing? Is there anything that’s clinically just kind of off?
I mean, down to it matters that people know who they’re being treated by and things like therapists and social workers, and these are [00:06:00] not interchangeable terms. Helping clients be clear and understand the system and not confusing them by acting like terms are interchangeable is really helpful.
Jenny: So, whenever we’re thinking about mental health and mental health services, there have been, as you know, some really large companies entering the space in a big way, right? So you see Headspace, [00:10:00] BetterHelp. And they’re coming in and they are trying to reach mass scale through these large nationwide campaigns to be able to provide people access to care.
And it’s kind of interesting. As a consumer you know, if I remove my marketer hat and I think of myself as a person that may need or one of my family members may need mental health services, it’s kind of interesting now that we have two different camps starting, right? You have like the huge private equity backed investments, and then you have individual clinicians or a smaller localized group practices.
And the marketing of those two is taking massively different approaches. I’d love to hear your thoughts on that and kind of how you see the environment right now.
Megan: Yeah, I think that it’s super important to understand where the money is coming from and why they’re putting the money into it.
And it kind of gives you some perspective. So these big venture capital [00:11:00] firms are helping these companies scale. Most of that is going to marketing and acquisitions. The problem that I see with that is that clinicians are actively working to get rid of clients. Like, that’s kind of your job.
Your job is to constantly be trying to get your clients better so that they don’t need a therapist anymore. Which is at odds with what I assume is the proposition in these conversations with venture capitalists, which is we just need help on the front end to get clients. And then we can spend, we’ll spend a little, a lot of marketing in the beginning, but then we won’t need to spend as much marketing.
Well, that’s not actually true. You’re always going to if that’s the customer acquisition costs, those customers are going to leave. That’s the point of therapy. And you’re going to need to spend more money to get more customers too. So I think that’s kind of a dynamic that I don’t understand, and I don’t know why all this money continues to go into these.
I think most of them are not even in the black yet. Because of the marketing spend, so it’s interesting to [00:12:00] see how that’s going to play out. I hope new solutions are going to pop up to address that. I think that it’s important. individual clinicians have access to all the referrals that they need. Because the demand is so high.
I would really appreciate it if marketers, these big companies, would stop viewing traditional therapy as their competitors. Traditional therapists are not your competitors.
Your competitors are stigma and shame and barriers like pricing and insurance. Those are your competitors. I don’t want to see another chart of comparing your platform to traditional therapy, like leave the traditional therapist alone. There’s more than enough for everyone. Go after these actual competitors that are keeping the market smaller than it needs to be.
Jenny: I will say also, like, I don’t know many traditional therapists that even have availability for new patients. So it definitely is not a situation if somebody is actively seeking [00:13:00] therapy, traditional therapists are like you said, likely not competition for that reason alone.
So Megan, it has been such an absolute joy. I think the point of involving clinicians early and often and thoroughly in marketing communication strategies in mental health is a very good one.
So thank you for being on today. I’m going to add your LinkedIn to the show notes. If anybody would like to continue the conversation with you offline!
Thank you friends. I’ll see you in a future episode.
These changes may seem daunting (and even a bit terrifying) at first, but remember that dealing with change is what marketers are designed to do. We constantly need to adjust based on the information received and this challenge is no different. Marketers can either embrace this new world as an opportunity to improve trust with their audience, or keep doing the same thing until they’re forced to make a change (which is inevitable).
At Hedy & Hopp, we prefer the former, and want to share with you how we’ve helped our clients make sense of the changes and set themselves up for success in the long-term.
Want more details on these steps? Please keep reading!
Got a case of “TLDR”? Please get in touch – we’d love to help!
Like most evaluation efforts when a massive change happens, we start with an audit. Document all of the channels you use, plan to use, are investigating using or/and have used in the last 12 months (to account for changes with seasonality).
Supplement this list by using third party tools like Wappalyzer to identify any pixels, code, plugins, etc., that may be on your website.
PRO TIP:
It is important not to skip this part. We cannot tell you how many clients have told us that they removed a software but we still saw live tags in GTM or hard-coded on their website There are also many plugins that our clients didn’t even know existed that we were able to identify (and actually remove if needed) through using these tools.
At least in the initial stage, it’s important for marketers to know what applies to them. Covered entities are always beholden to HIPAA, but health-adjacent companies and non-covered entities also need to be aware of the FTC and state laws, where applicable. Most states require companies to reach a number of annual visitors or/and meet a specific revenue goal in that state before they are required to comply, but it does vary. IAPP is a great resource for keeping up with those details.
First, conduct a monthly traffic report for the last 12 months, and separate out by state.
Under the state(s) that are relevant to your company, review the following:
You will probably find a lot of softwares that can be excluded from further investigation, like Javascript libraries, fonts and some plugins. But there will be a host of others that, either by nature of the platform or based on your implementation, will cause some issue with privacy – specifically with the “selling” (or sharing) of personal information.
Below is a guide for the kinds of platforms we have seen make the priority list:
If this list freaks you out, we see you. It looks like EVERYTHING is a priority! So we broke it down even further to prioritize based on the intent of how the platform is using that data, which makes the list looks a bit more manageable:
Priority 1: Data shared with additional third parties or/and includes sensitive information
Priority 2: Data necessary to perform function
Ok, that probably still makes your heart race, but what’s important to keep in mind is that the biggest concern for these platforms is based on the information being shared and how. Tools like your Website CMS by nature need to collect IP addresses, so while your company is sharing that “personal” information with a third party, it might not be a big risk for your company since that access is required to work.
Why do we say that? Although an IP address is still considered PII, it’s not nearly as personal (i.e., 1-to-1) as a diagnosis, a name, or an email address. This is why it’s essential to work with your legal team to determine what platforms are riskier than others based on the agreements in place.
As a marketer, your first instinct may be to say that all of these softwares, tools and platforms are necessary. And that might be the case. In our experience, however, there are usually software or tactics that are duplicative or have a more compliant alternative. Think critically about what your marketing is doing for you and embrace the opportunity for refinement that you now have.
Here are some questions to ask yourself while evaluating the priority tools:
If you said “no” to either of these questions, definitely consider removing those tools and tactics and you’ll be on your way to a cleaner, more compliant marketing plan and website. If you responded yes to any of these questions, then the next step is an important one – so keep reading!
PRO TIP:
Consider if any of the tools are duplicative. If you can consolidate tools to limit the number of third party tags and tools on your website, we would always recommend doing so.
This is the big one – the future of your marketing activation and evaluation. This last part will take some time and collaboration from your organization and marketing partners. The main question here is how you can modify the implementation or replace the tool to improve compliance. Some tools may offer anonymization, for example, which would be worth exploring.
Each marketer will implement various tools in various ways (too many variables for this post!). Here are a few best practices that helped us get our clients up to par (without losing their minds).
PRO TIP:
If you’ve not done so already, this is the time to make absolutely sure your legal team is aware and involved in these discussions. With the number of nuances with HIPAA privacy, it’s critical that your company’s legal team has the opportunity to engage and provide input on updates, specifically on privacy policies and the company’s overall data privacy approach.
Once these changes are in place, consider the next 30-60 days as a trial period. Are you missing any data for evaluation? Any new questions arising with the data you can see? It’s a good reminder that any change that you make will take some adjusting, but that doesn’t mean insights can no longer be found.
PRO TIP:
Don’t forget to update your data visualization dashboards to account for any new placements, accounts or configurations!
A healthcare marketer can leverage LinkedIn advertising in several ways to effectively reach their target audience and promote their healthcare products, services, or brand. Here are some strategies and tips:
Targeting Healthcare Professionals: LinkedIn allows precise targeting based on job titles, industries, and functions. Healthcare marketers can target specific healthcare professionals, such as doctors, nurses, pharmacists, administrators, and executives, based on their job titles or industry affiliations. This ensures that the ads are reaching the right audience.
Thought Leadership and Content Promotion: Healthcare marketers can use Sponsored Content and Sponsored InMail to share valuable content, such as articles, research papers, case studies, or educational materials related to their field. This positions the marketer as a thought leader and helps build credibility and trust with the audience. Promoting webinars, conferences, or speaking engagements can also be effective in establishing expertise.
Job Postings and Recruitment: Healthcare organizations often have specific talent acquisition needs. LinkedIn provides targeted options for promoting job openings and reaching qualified healthcare professionals who are actively seeking employment opportunities. Healthcare marketers can use Sponsored Job Ads to attract top talent to their organization.
Brand Awareness and Reputation Management: LinkedIn advertising can help healthcare marketers increase brand visibility and manage their online reputation. Display Ads and Dynamic Ads can be used to create visually appealing brand messages and reach a broad audience. Marketers can also target specific industries, organizations, or regions to raise awareness of their brand and build positive associations.
Industry Events and Conferences: Healthcare marketers can utilize LinkedIn advertising to promote industry events, conferences, or webinars. Sponsored Content, Sponsored InMail, and Display Ads can be used to drive registrations, highlight keynote speakers, and generate buzz around the event. Targeting options ensure that the ads reach professionals interested in the healthcare industry.
LinkedIn collects a variety of personal and technical data from its users, including:
Remember – just because a targeting option is available does mean that you should use it. In fact, taking advantage of features that could make your campaigns more effective could be what compromises your HIPAA compliance.
After the updated guidance from the Department of Health and Human Services was released, things haven’t exactly been black and white as far as whether or not this crosses a line, but from our perspective, it really depends on how you use the platform – specifically the Insight Tag. Conversion pixels can compromise HIPAA compliance in a few ways.
While LinkedIn only keeps personal data collected from the Insight Tag for 180 days, there is a lot that can be done with this data in that time period. The HHS is also very specific that the sharing of, or even the ability to access any personal health information is a violation.
Pro Tip:
LinkedIn is somewhat unique in that healthcare marketers may be using the platform to reach a different audience than prospective patients. For example, if a healthcare marketer is using LinkedIn to reach HCPs (healthcare professionals) HIPAA may not even apply to those efforts.
That being said, there are also some tactics available in LinkedIn Advertising that aren’t unique to that platform but are never HIPAA-compliant, such as remarketing, lookalike audiences and uploading target lists. It is also important to consider other tools that have access to your LinkedIn data, including optimization and data visualization software.
As with most advertising platforms, there are steps that can be taken to mitigate risk and to protect your users’ data as much as possible. Some good rules of thumb are to limit conversion pixels as much as possible, consider a server-side tagging strategy, and to ensure that you are not using predatory tactics to reach people with a specific condition or disease.
As with anything HIPAA-related, compliance tends to lie on a spectrum of your risk tolerance as well as the steps you take to mitigate as much risk as possible.
Pro Tip:
It’s important to connect with your legal team to determine how best to move forward. Listen to our HIPAA & FTC 101 podcast for more information about changes for healthcare companies.
YouTube is a powerful tool that can be used for marketing in a variety of ways. It has over 2 billion active users, making it a great way to reach a large audience with your messages. You can target your YouTube ads to specific demographics, interests, and behaviors, ensuring that your messages reach the right people.
YouTube is a visual platform, so it’s a great way to create engaging content that will capture people’s attention. By creating high-quality, informative videos, you can build trust and credibility with potential patients. You can also use YouTube to drive traffic to your website by embedding your videos on your website or by linking to your website in your video descriptions.
Here are some specific ways that healthcare businesses can use YouTube for marketing:
This type of advertising, outbound marketing, is often used in conjunction with search ads, a form of inbound marketing from Bing or Google, which we have gone over the compliance of in previous posts.
Pro Tip:
YouTube does have specific guidelines around advertising in healthcare. Most notably, companies promoting pharmaceuticals & addiction services must be verified through LegitScript in order to advertise on YouTube’s platform.
Similar to Google Ads, YouTube relies heavily on the user being signed into their Google Account (which automatically becomes their YouTube account) in order to track behavior across a wide range of touchpoints. This means that YouTube collects the following data on its users:
Additionally, even just embedding a YouTube video on a website could be cause for concern, as the iframe sends information back to DoubleClick, the base advertising platform that Google uses. This means that users watching a YouTube video embedded on a third party site could have that video’s contents tied to their Google profile, which could potentially reveal sensitive health information about that user.
After the updated guidance from the Department of Health and Human Services was released, things haven’t exactly been black and white as far as whether or not this crosses a line, but from our perspective, YouTube advertising is certainly one that your team should think critically about, especially when you consider the long list of Google’s subprocessors, who could potentially have access to any and all data collected. This is especially true if you’re adding a Google tracking pixel to your website.
Furthermore, there are also some tactics available in YouTube Advertising that aren’t unique to that platform but are never HIPAA-compliant, such as remarketing and lookalike audiences. It is also important to consider other tools that have access to your YouTube data, including optimization and data visualization software.
As with most advertising platforms, there are steps that can be taken to mitigate risk and to protect your users’ data as much as possible. Some good rules of thumb are to limit conversion pixels as much as possible, consider a server-side tagging strategy, and to ensure that you are not using predatory tactics to reach people with a specific condition or disease.
As with anything HIPAA-related, compliance tends to lie on a spectrum of your risk tolerance as well as the steps you take to mitigate as much risk as possible.
Pro Tip:
It’s important to connect with your legal team to determine how best to move forward. Listen to our HIPAA & FTC 101 podcast for more information about changes for healthcare companies.